The Hey, this is Trey. Thank you for joining us for the Tuesday edition of our podcast and this is a real treat for me.

If you listen to this podcast, if you watch the television show, if you have read, really, any of the three books I've written then I have

cited quoted paraphrase stolen from today's guest I try not steal, I try to give him credit. I quoted a story that he included in one of his books in my last book.

It was that story had a profound impact on me.

There are two books sitting on my bedside table

right now as we speak, and that's been true for over a decade.

There's the Bible, which makes my mom and my wife very happy.

And then there's a book called Gates of Fire,

which is my favorite book of all time,

written by an author who is currently living.

I loved Dosteviasky and I loved Toll Story, but Gates of Fire

struck me in a way that no other book has. He's written scores of other books,

historical fiction fiction his name is Stephen

pressfield and we are delighted to have you with us today welcome to you

hey thanks train it's a pleasure to be here we've been trying to do this for a while and I'm glad we finally got it together.

Well, I am a semi-retired, maybe on the way to being fully retired, depends on, you know, I guess the ratings for my TV show but you're a busy guy so

thank you for doing this all right my pleasure I want to talk to you about your

craft your artistry but also how people listening can maybe practice their own artistry.

Is it true? Is it true that for nearly two decades you worked your artistry, your craft without getting a single penny in return?

That's true. I think it was a little more than that in fact, yeah.

Was it a love of what you were doing? Was it a self-belief that eventually this is going to catch? what cost you to keep going it was one of those things and you

know I think when you ask a question ask an artist or somebody why do you do what you do

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