Really what somebody needs to do is turn up and say,

this country is heading towards bankruptcy.

It's not just the stated national debt,

it's the 2.8 trillion of public sector pension liabilities that we haven't funded,

and the 5.6 trillion of state pension liabilities that we haven't funded.

That increases the national debt by about fourfold.

And this country is headed to bankruptcy within about 10 to 20 years.

But until a politician says, and we've got to make hard choices, we can drift forwards and

default on the welfare state so that old people with no other means of support end up going

without their pension, without healthcare, without social care, or we can start taking the hard choices now to get

all this under control.

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Great to see you both. Steve could see you again.

Delighted to be here. Thank you. Thank you for having us. No worries, James. So on the way down,

well, actually, interestingly, last night I was messaging Charlotte Gill, talking Charlotte Gill from

...