Welcome to the Tech Policy Podcast. I'm I'm in Schwarzenberg. On today's show, Internet Governance, who governs the Internet? How much involvement do governments have like the United States or China or Russia in determining the standards of the Internet, how it's used, who can use it, what websites we can go to. What does

it mean internet governance? This term that's been thrown around the news a lot recently as we

debate the United States handing over ultimate control of the domain system to an international

body. But we're not going to get bogged down in the IANA transition today. We're going to talk

about internet governance as a broader topic.

Joining me to discuss this is a friend of the show, Shane Too's visiting fellow at AEI.

Welcome back, Shane.

Thank you.

And David Gross, partner at Wiley Rhine, aka the Godfather of Internet Governance.

David, thanks for joining.

Always a pleasure, although I've never been referred to as the godfather before. I always thought that was James

Brown, but that's a different issue. So before we jump in, let's define the term, because unless

you've been following the debates for decades, I mean, the internet governance is not necessarily

a tech policy topic that has gotten to the kitchen table yet, like encryption.

So, David, what does Internet governance mean to you?

Well, Internet governance is a term that's been around now probably about as long as the Internet itself, and it's been a changing term.

For years, people have been thinking about Internet governance, really, as focusing primarily

on things that organizations like ICANN are involved in, that is, how do you allocate domain

name addresses and names and things of that nature.

But I think people are starting to realize that the term is actually much broader

and is somewhat deceptive in the sense that the term is actually much broader and is somewhat

deceptive in the sense that the term internet governance really sounds singular, as if there's

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