Hello Malcolm.

Hey Joe.

How you doing?

I'm doing very well.

You sound like you.

Good, good, that's always a good sign know it's through headphones it's very interesting because I've

been listening to talking to strangers I like that you narrate your books it's very

frustrating with someone who's a great speaker does not narrate their books so

thanks for doing that. No I actually I kind of enjoy I used to hate that process with

my first one and then I've grown to enjoy it because you when you say your

book out loud you see it in a different way like oh you know you get a little bit of

a different perspective on it well I'm a giant fan of your work, man, particularly outliers.

I really love that book.

It's very illuminating and sort of peels away the mystery of talent and so tell me what you're doing what is this talking

to strangers I'm into about I'm in the second chapter right now. Oh, I see.

Well, that was a book about, I was struck by how many of the kind of high profile cases that we got

obsessed with were at their root about the same thing, which

is that individuals were two people who didn't know each other well, had an exchange and they

got each other wrong. So you know everything from

Amanda Knox to Bernie Madoff to the to Larry Nassar at Michigan State to Jerry Sandusky at Penn State, and then to the signature case, which the book is organized around, which is the Sandra Bland case. Remember the young woman, Texas? it gets pulled over by the side of the road.

Yeah.

They're all at root fundamentally the same problem, which is there's a there's an exchange

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