244. Asking A Theoretical Physicist About The Physics Of Consciousness | Roger Penrose

The Jordan B. Peterson Podcast

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Education, Science, Society & Culture

4.6 • 34.5K Ratings

🗓️ 14 April 2022

⏱️ 101 minutes

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Summary

Dr. Peterson recently traveled to the UK for a series of lectures at the highly esteemed Universities of Oxford and Cambridge. This conversation was recorded during that period with Sir Roger Penrose, a British mathematical physicist who was awarded the 2020 Nobel Prize in Physics for “discovering that black hole formation is a robust predictor of Einstein’s general relativity.” Moderated by Dr. Stephen Blackwood. ___________ Chapters ___________ [0:00] Intro [1:00] Is Consciousness Computational? [3:20] Turing Machines [6:30] Determinism & the Arrow of Time [12:15] Consciousness & Reductionism [17:30] Emergent Randomness & Evolution [23:00] The Tiling Problem, Computation, & AI [29:30] Escher, Brains, Bach [39:00] Pattern Recognition & Intuition [45:30] Mathematical Representations & the Physical World [54:00] Collapsing Schrodinger’s Equation [1:00:00] Consciousness-Independent Reality [1:07:00] Black Holes & Time Horizons [1:15:00] Einstein’s Biggest Mistake [1:27:00] Meaning & Consciousness [1:39:00] Hawking Spots: Potential

Transcript

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0:00.0	I'm Stephen Blackwood and I have the great honor today to be here with Sir Roger Penrose
0:23.2	and Dr. Jordan Peterson.
0:25.6	Let's get right down to it.
0:26.8	Jordan, I know you have questions you're keen to pose to Sir Roger over to you.
0:31.1	Yeah, well I've wanted to talk to a theoretical physicist for about 30 years and so I'm pretty
0:37.2	happy that you're the theoretical physicist that I get to talk to.
0:41.6	I'm probably not representative, so you're...
0:44.0	Well, that might be even better.
0:46.0	So, I want to jump right into it.
0:48.7	A colleague and friend of mine is a AI engineer and a computer engineer and he's built a lot
0:55.9	of the world's great chips, iPhone chip.
1:00.2	First 64-bit chip, the Alpha back in 1985 and we were having a conversation.
1:04.9	I said I was coming to meet you and that you...
1:09.3	And I don't want to put words in your mouth, believe me, but that you believe that consciousness
1:14.0	is in some fundamental sense non-computational.
1:17.3	And I asked him what he thought about that and part of the reason I asked him is because
1:20.6	he's of all the people I've ever met and maybe of all the people in the world.
1:25.4	He's the person who's done most to build arguably brain-like algorithmic systems.
1:32.1	And so I asked him if he thought that there was a distinction between the algorithmic computation
1:39.0	of cognition per se and whatever consciousness might be and he thought it was algorithmic
1:46.5	all the way down.
1:48.3	And I understand that you don't believe that.
	...

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