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entrepreneurs like you. Sign up for your $1 a month trial at Shopify.com slash setup. Hello and welcome to this special edition of Battleground.

We're recording this at 11 o'clock on Saturday morning UK time.

We thought you'd want to hear our reactions.

I'm sure you've all been talking amongst yourselves about what actually occurred and what this all means.

Saul is still away, but friend of the podcast, Roger Morehouse, who listeners will remember well, is here to help out with his thoughts and predictions.

Well, we all know why we're here.

It's because of that dark scenario that played out in front of the world in the Oval Office in Washington on Friday when the deep tensions between Ukraine and the USA were put on open display, and the characters of President Trump and his deputy, J.D. Vance, were revealed in stark and unflattering detail. All our listeners will have had their own

reactions to the footage, shock being the predominant one, I imagine. What did you make of it, Roger?

Yeah, but shock is the word, Patrick. It did look, it was very shocking scene. And just to see

Zelenska, I think actually humiliated, I think that's the only word I can

use, humiliated in that way, with what, you know, is increasingly seemed like a sort of perversion

of the facts, which is what we've had for the last few weeks from the Trump administration

on this issue. You know, this, the talk last week, I think it was where Trump sort of labeled

Zelensky as a dictator and then the criticisms that they weren't holding elections during

the war, for example. I mean, it's just, it's sort of almost willfully blind. I can see why

there are so many out there who sort of attribute, you know, deeply sinister motives to this.

But then that, in a sense, was the sort

...