So welcome to the rest of the politics with me, Alistair Campbell. And me, Rory Stewart.

And we have our second special guest. The first was a Labour Prime Minister by the name

of Tony Blair. And the current one, would you like to introduce yourself, sir?

Kia Starma, hopefully the next Labour Prime Minister.

So nice Starma, I'm asking you, how is that going to be brought about?

What is the plan?

Oh, well, look, there's always been three bits of the plan, a three-part plan.

The first bit was to change the Labour Party.

So I obviously took over two years and two months ago.

And we just lost the worst election results since 1935.

And I felt very strongly that when you lose that badly, you don't look at the electorate

and say, what on earth were you doing?

You look at your own party and say, we've got to change.

So we did the change bit. We've done a huge amount of change in the last two years.

Next bit is expose the Tories that's not fit to govern.

I've been ably assisted by Boris Johnson in that, including his departure.

And then the next bit is, if not them, then why us?

Which is the bit we're on at the moment.

And I've just been setting out that we want to fight the next election on the economy.

I think that's the single most important thing.

What was this journey of changing Labour?

What were the hard truths that you felt that you had to tell Labour?

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