Welcome to the Making Sense Podcast, this is Sam Harris. Just a note to say that if you're hearing this you're not currently on our subscriber feed and will only be hearing the first part of this conversation. In order to access full episodes of the Making Sense Podcast, you'll need to subscribe at Sam Harris.org. There you'll also find our

scholarship program where we offer free accounts to anyone who can't afford one. We

don't run ads on the podcast and therefore it's made possible entirely through the support of our subscribers.

So if you enjoy what we're doing here, please consider becoming one. I am back with Rory Stewart.

Rory, thanks for doing this.

Hello Sam.

Thank you for having me back.

Yeah, so this is an unusual podcast. I haven't done one quite like this before, but, and obviously,

this will not see the light of day unless each of us believes the conversation is useful.

So if you're hearing this, that's what we thought for better or worse.

So I'll just kind of set this up to remind both of us and our listeners what's happening here.

So you came on my podcast a few weeks ago and I thought we had a great conversation.

We discussed many things related to the failures of nation building about what you know, more or less everything, and the unraveling of world order.

And then afterwards, a listener surfaced some remarks that you made on your own

podcast which I'll drop in here for listeners about you know the 60 seconds or so.

One of the things that I've about 60 seconds or so.

One of the things that I've noticed recently, particularly since October the 7th,

is an increase in people making stereotypical comments about Muslims.

I mean, I just did a interview with an American podcast,

guy called Sam Harris, who was hammering me for nearly an hour

saying, yes, but surely Rory, you have to admit

there's a connection between Muslims and suicide bombers and

...