Welcome to the Pure Desire Podcast, helping you take back your life from unwanted sexual behavior and betrayal trauma.

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, whatever time. I'm your host, Trevor Windsor, and you're listening to Episode 357 of the Pure Desire Podcast. You're joining me, as always, my co-host, Nick Stembo.

Do, do, do, do, do do do, do.

Okay, so this episode isn't going to come out during the tournament.

I know.

That's really unfortunate.

It is.

But we're recording it in the midst of the madness.

That is true.

The madness is under gray.

My bracket is destroyed.

But yeah, that is the very iconic jingle, if you will, for the March Madness. Yeah, for decades. I mean, like, I just see the March Madness bracket and that little ditty pops into my head. That

and Jim Nance's voice. Like those are the two things that

seems like just define March Madness. That's right. Okay, so tie it in. Good luck. I'm interested

to see how you do this. But we had one of our clinicians on, Eileen Fagan. And we talked to her today

about what we would call a healthy separation.

Yeah, you know, and in March Madness, it's all about the brackets and competing and, you know, teams winning and losing and, you know, the glory of the victory and the agony of defeat and all that.

And I think in a lot of marriages, when there is a rupture of discovery, there's issues of addiction that have come to light, it is easy for the couple to begin to see themselves as two separate teams and begin to define things in terms of

winning and losing. And well, if I move out, she wins or if this happens, I lose and I don't

want to lose. And we're holding on to maybe some pride or some issues that it's really about ourselves versus coming back

to seeing the marriage as a team and that we're on the same team. And as we discussed, I think,

really well today, we've seen ways that healthy separation or what Eileen calls therapeutic separation

...