I'm Tim here today with Lance. Lance, how are you today?

I'm doing fantastic today, Tim. We have the holidays in full swing right now. So we're all preparing for that. We have some family gatherings coming up. And we have a member of the Cross Space family on this episode. He's always bringing such interesting insight into these topics. But Tim, how's your holiday season? Are you feeling jolly? Dish? What's going on?

I'm jolly.

I'm pretty jolly.

And yeah, we're recording this on December 20th.

And this will be one of our last episodes of the year. And we are excited, though, to host a friend who we've met a little while ago.

His name is Professor David Perlmutter.

And he is with Texas Tech University. I think most of his

appearances have been on missing, but this time we are speaking with him on crawl space,

obviously, about the disappearances and mysterious deaths of Chris Kremers and Lysan Frune.

That's right. And while we say that we are excited to bring this conversation, I mean,

we're certainly not excited to talk about the unfortunate, untimely deaths of these two young

women. Chris Kremers was 21, Lysan Frun was 22, and they were both from the Netherlands

and were embarking on a teaching trip in Panama in 2014, unfortunately, during a hike

during their downtime. Something happened during that six-hour period, which became now, I think

the stuff of true crime legend. There are multiple dozens of pictures out there that people have

really committed themselves to figuring out in terms of what these pictures mean.

And that's what Dr. Perlmutter is bringing to the conversation here.

He is a professor and an expert and he teaches in the subject of interpreting what we see in the media versus real life and how we are processing that.

Yeah, this is really right up Dr. Perlmutter's alley this conversation.

And in fact, he brought the subject to us because I think he really enjoys sort of mixing it up with us.

And we with him as well.

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