Welcome to the British History Podcast. My name is Jamie, and this is episode 473.

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and you can get instant access to all the members' extras by signing up for membership

at the British History Podcast.com for about the price of a latte per month. And thank you very much

to Kirsten, Elizabeth, and Peggy for signing up already. So when we left off, Anselm finally had his pallium. And Rufus, well, he got all the

independence and freedom from church interference that he could have hoped for. Even better,

his bishops were on the same page as him and were now supporting the king's independence from Rome. Now, technically,

that would make them schismatics, according to the papacy, essentially people who refuse to submit

to the Pope. But that framing strikes me as misleading for a variety of reasons. First of all,

because it implies the king and the bishops were doing something wrong or in violation of agreed upon principles, when the reality was that the king was on some pretty solid ground here.

He wanted to rule England in the same manner that his father had done.

He wanted to be an independent king.

And the idea that the king would hold his authority

under the Pope was still far from settled at this point and was instead a pretty radical notion.

Second, calling them schismatics carries the implication that they were breaking with Rome and that

that break was over theological grounds. However, that they were breaking with Rome, and that that break was over theological

grounds. However, if they were schismatics, then so was the papal legate, because he was on board

with this as well. And on top of that, it seems quite apparent that everyone was making this choice

not on theological grounds,

but on political ones.

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