This movement that we now call Wokeness, it hijacked what I would call sort of at the time,

bog standard progressivism. But, you know, it turned out what we were dealing with was something that was far more aggressive.

Your pouring cultural asset on your company and the entire thing is devolving into complete chaos.

It's also, I think, the case that the new communication technologies have also enabled reputation savages in a way that we haven't seen before.

The single biggest fight is going to be over what are the values of the AIs. That fight, I think,

is going to be a million times bigger and more intense and more important than the social media

censorship fight. As you know, out of the gate, this is going very poorly. Stop there for just a sec, because we should delve into that. That's a terrible thing.

Hello, everybody.

So I had the opportunity to talk to Mark Andreas and today.

And Mark has been quite visible on the podcast circuit as of late. And part of the reason for that is that he's part of a swing within the tech community, back towards the center,

and even more particularly under the current conditions, toward the novel and emerging players in the Trump

administration. Now, Mark is a key tech visionary. He developed

Mosaic and Netscape, and they really laid the groundwork for the web as we know it. And Mark has

been a investor in Silicon Valley circles for 20 years and is as

plugged into the tech seen as anyone in the world. And the fact that he's decided to speak publicly,

for example, about such issues as government tech collusion, and that he's turned his attention to away from the

Democrats, which is the traditional party, let's say, of the tech visionaries, and they're all

characterized by the high openness that tends to make people liberal. The fact that Mark has pivoted is, what would you say? It's an important, it may be as

important an event as Musk aligning with Trump. And so I wanted to talk to Mark about his vision of the future.

He laid out a manifesto a while back called the Techno Optimist Manifesto,

which bears some clear resemblance to the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship Policy Platform,

that's ARC, which is an enterprise that I'm deeply involved in. And so I wanted

...