Welcome to the Making Sense Podcast. This is Sam Harris. Just a note to say that if you're

hearing this, you are not currently on our subscriber feed and will only be hearing

the first part of this conversation. In order to access full episodes of the Making Sense

Podcast, you'll need to subscribe at samharis.org. There you'll find our private RSS feed

to add to your favorite pod catcher, along with other subscriber-only content. We don't run ads

on the podcast, and therefore it's made possible entirely through the support of our subscribers.

So if you enjoy what we're doing here, please consider becoming one.

Well today I am speaking with a guest who many of you may not have heard of. He is a clinical

psychologist at the University of Toronto by the name of Jordan Peterson, who has become

quite famous online recently for standing in opposition to changes to the human rights

code in Ontario, Canada, that have really direct relevance to him as a professor.

And he's been on many different podcasts, Joe Rogan, Dave Rubin, Gad Sad, I think. So you know,

many people who you may also listen to have interviewed him. And he is actually, as I say,

at the beginning of this interview, the most requested guest I have had at this point by all of you.

I can't tell you how many people have emailed me or tweeted at me,

demanding that I have Jordan on the podcast. And it's really an anticipation of us not talking about

free speech, but about his beliefs about religion and its importance, the connection between

religious truth and scientific truth, the importance of mythology. All of this is stuff that has

come out in his other interviews, which many atheists and secularists have found both perplexing

and inspiring. I've seen many atheists say that this, you know, Jordan is giving a, the first

construal of religion that I find hard to grapple with, that is interesting, that seems morally important

and intellectually honest. So many, many of you have wanted to get the two of us together

...