If you hold down the button on the top of your phone for like five seconds, it actually turns off.

And when you turn that thing off, and the minute you turn that thing off, it is the scariest moment in the world,

because you are saying to the world, you are saying to the world you are not my legal work. Hello friends and welcome back to another episode of theology in the raw. I am so

excited about this episode. I know I say that about every episode but I really am. I'm

excited about every single episode that I do, but this one is a very special episode because I have not I'm gonna go ahead and say this

I have not one of my favorite Christian authors but as I recently said on Twitter my

favorite Christian author and maybe it's because CS Lewis and Tolkien are dead

that I can't have them on, but the third best option behind Lewis

and Tolkien is my, I'm going to say my good friend.

We haven't hung out a lot, but I feel like I know you inside it out.

My good friend, Dr. A.J. Swaboda, A.J. Thanks so much for being on theology in the rock.

I'm honored to be here and either you've never you've

never read anything I've ever written or you've never read Tolkien and

Lewis regardless. Yeah well so let's just jump into that. You're you as a writer, you're a

pastor, you have a PhD, you're a teacher, professor, but you've written several books. I

have two here in front of me. I think my wife might have one of the other ones that I have.

I'm holding in my hands. The first one I read, I think I told you the backstory on this, it's called A Glorious Dark,

which has one of the coolest covers by the way.

Finding Hope and The Tension Between Belief and Experience.

I had, I met a guy here years ago. He was part of the Four Square Church, which is your four square right?

Yes. And he said, oh my gosh, you got to read this guy a j swaboda. He's four square

He's written this book of glorious dark. It's my favorite book I've ever read so I think he was a student out here at Northwestern

...