A Democrat Who Is Thinking Differently

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.6 • 11K Ratings

🗓️ 18 February 2025

⏱️ 64 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

After the elections, I started asking congressional Democrats the same question: If the elections had gone the other way, if they had won a trifecta, what would be their first big bill? In almost every case, they said they didn’t know. That’s a problem. Democrats are in the opposition now. That means fighting the worst of what Trump is doing. But it also means providing an alternative. So one thing I’m going to do this year is talk to Democrats who are trying to find that alternative — an agenda that meets the challenges of the moment, not just one carried from the past. Representative Jake Auchincloss of Massachusetts is the first up to bat. We spoke in January, so we don’t cover the latest Trump news. The conversation is really focused on his ideas, and he has a lot of interesting ones — about the abundance agenda, the attention economy and how Democrats should talk about policy during a second Trump term. I don’t necessarily agree with every idea he offers, but he’s definitely wrestling with that question I posed to other Democrats: What is your alternative? This episode contains strong language. Mentioned: “The Problem With Everything-Bagel Liberalism” by Ezra Klein Book Recommendations: “How Mathematics Built the Modern World” by Bo Malmberg and Hannes Malmberg Radical Markets by Eric A. Posner and E. Glen Weyl What Hath God Wrought by Daniel Walker Howe Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs. This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Rollin Hu. Fact-checking by Kate Sinclair and Mary Marge Locker. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Elias Isquith, Kristin Lin and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

Transcript

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0:00.0	From New York Times opinion, this after the other.
0:38.8	If it had gone the other way, if they had won a trifecta, what would their first big bill have been?
0:44.7	What was going to be their priority?
0:46.7	In almost every case, they said they didn't know.
0:50.3	It's a problem.
0:51.9	Democrats are in the opposition now.
0:53.6	That means fighting the worst of what Trump is doing. But it also means providing an alternative, creating another center of gravity in American politics. So one thing I'm going to do on the show this year is talk to Democrats who sound like they are trying to find their way to that alternative. Democrats who sound like they are crafting an agenda alive to this
1:12.1	moment, not just one carried over from the past. One Democrat I found interesting here is Jake Ockincloss,
1:20.3	a congressman from Massachusetts. Among the Democrats talking about the abundance agenda, and my book
1:25.8	on abundance comes out next month, so I will admit to
1:28.0	being particularly interested here. He's been really pretty substantive. It's not that I agree
1:33.5	with every idea he offers here. I don't. But when I hear him, I hear someone wrestling with a question
1:38.3	I posed to other Democrats. What is your alternative? What did people need to hear from you
1:43.6	over these last few years that they didn't?
1:45.8	What do they need to believe you will do if you get power?
1:49.0	This conversation was recorded at the end of January,
1:51.5	so you're not going to hear us discuss the latest Trump news.
1:54.1	But it's also not the point here.
1:56.0	The country needs a resistance, but it also needs an alternative.
2:00.6	As always, my email as Ezraqlind Show at
2:02.8	NYTimes.com.
2:17.4	Congressman Jake Alkenklaas, welcome to the show.
	...

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