Well, welcome listeners to the editor's desk, our regular podcast with authors in First Things magazine.

And I am Rusty Reno, the editor of First Things, and I'm delighted today to have with me Aaron Wren.

Aaron is the author of a regular ongoing commentary,

which you can read at Aaronren.

Dot substack.com.

That's the AA-A-Aaron, double n wren at substack, I mean, dot substack.com.

Well, Aaron, we're here to talk about the three worlds of evangelicalism.

And I'm just so delighted that you did this piece for us.

It's been fantastic.

Well, thanks for asking for it. I really appreciate it.

Evangelicalism, you say at the outset, is divided. So how so?

Well, we see a lot of intra-evangelical conflict of a type that has not been there to the same degree in the

past. Evangelicalism has never been a monolith. It's always been made up of different groups of people.

But I think now we're seeing a degree of intra-evangelical acrimony that really hasn't been there before. I say that there's a

culture war, but now the culture war is within evangelicalism rather than between evangelicalism

and the world. So we see this, for example, in David French, a good example of someone who you would have said

was a conservative culture war Christian. Now has become, quite frankly, a critic of conservative

evangelicals. His most recent newsletter made the argument that America is a more just society,

now that white evangelical influence has declined. And so we're seeing these sorts of realignments and conflict very

similar to what happened in the 2016 election with Donald Trump. So as society, the Democratic Party and the Republican Party have been

undergoing realignments, similar things have been happening with an evangelical world,

although perhaps for slightly different reasons.

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