And the This week podcasting it couple JF Martel and Phil Ford come to the show.

JF is a returning guest and Phil Ford is a first-time guest.

Thank you so much for your time gentlemen.

Welcome aboard.

Thanks for having us.

Yeah, absolutely.

So I want to give you guys and the listeners a bit of a preamble as to how this episode came about.

Last time, what is it, August? So in June, I was on the west coast of Tasmania doing some filming and some experimental

evocation from The Secrets of Solomon, which is more like a collection of the funny, shorter little spells at the

back of a grim wire and less of the get a lion skin belt, stay up all night, get the time incorrect,

more classic Solomonic evocation.

And one of them in particular is you have the little seal of the spirit and you light a candle

and you basically just sit in front of it this candle and this seal in the dark for half an hour and that's a slumber party when you're a kid right like you're you're actually scaring yourself into some kind of moment.

And I was on the west coast of Tasmania filming this stuff

to talk about the role of place in magic, in evocation,

and how when you are doing operations like that you like the west coast of Tasmania is where the you can look out over the longer stretch of water anywhere on the planet like it it scouches underneath Africa and goes the whole way around to Argentina so it's why it has a clearest water and air on earth and it's also very love crafty and because you have these big, like ancient underwater ravines bringing up like really cold

ancient water up to the surface. So the whole thing is like if you're ever

going to stand anywhere on the edge of the unconscious, that's one of those places, right?

So that's a trick. This is stagecraft, right? Like it's stagecraft towards a particular goal.

And whenever I go places like this, I give... it's stagecraft towards a particular goal.

And whenever I go places like this,

I give myself days off for good behavior

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