Burned Out? Start Here.

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.6 • 11K Ratings

🗓️ 7 January 2025

⏱️ 65 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

I like to begin each year with an episode about something I’m working through more personally. And at the end of last year, the thing I needed to work through was a pretty bad case of burnout. So I picked up Oliver Burkeman’s latest book, “Meditations for Mortals: Four Weeks to Embrace Your Limitations and Make Time for What Counts.” Burkeman’s big idea, which he also explores in his best seller “Four Thousand Weeks: Time Management for Mortals,” is that the desire to be more productive, to squeeze out the most from each day, to try to feel on top of our lives, is ultimately insatiable. He argues that addressing burnout requires a shift in outlook — accepting that our time and energy are finite, and that there will always be something more to do. In other words: What if you began with a deeper appreciation of your own limits? How, then, would you live? Burkeman’s book is structured as 28 short essays on this question. In this conversation, I ask him to walk me through some of them. We discuss what burnout is; what it means to accept your limitations and let go of control; the messages children absorb about productivity and work; navigating the overwhelm of information and news; and more. This episode contains strong language. Mentioned: “How Millennials Became The Burnout Generation” by Anne Helen Petersen Rest by Alex Soojung-Kim Pang “Stop. Breathe. We Can’t Keep Working Like This.” with Cal Newport on “The Ezra Klein Show” “The Man Who Knew Too Little” by Sam Dolnick Book Recommendations: The Uncontrollability of the World by Hartmut Rosa Fully Alive by Elizabeth Oldfield Death by Joan Tollifson Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs. This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Kristin Lin. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker. Mixing by Isaac Jones, with Efim Shapiro and Aman Sahota. Our supervising editor is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith and Jack McCordick. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The executive producer of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0	From New York Times opinion, this is the Ezra Klein Show. And we're back.
0:33.2	I hope y'all had a wonderful holiday.
0:36.1	I like to begin the show each year with an episode about something I'm thinking through personally.
0:43.4	It's resolutions adjacent podcasting.
0:46.4	And what was present for me as we near the end of last year was a pretty real case of burnout.
0:51.9	I took some of December off, took a vacation, I'm feeling more
0:55.2	grounded now, you don't need to send me concerned emails. But that was the frame of mind I was in
1:00.5	when I picked up Oliver Berkman's Meditations for Mortals. And the book connected for me.
1:05.9	Berkman's big idea, which he described in his bestseller a couple years back 4,000 weeks,
1:12.5	is it no productivity system anywhere will ever deliver what it is promising? A sense of control. A feeling that you
1:19.8	have mastered your task list in some enduring way that you've built levees strong enough to withstand
1:25.0	life's chaos. And so his question is really the
1:27.8	reverse. What if rather than starting from the presumption that it can all be brought under
1:32.6	control, you begin instead from the presumption that it can't be? What if you began with a deeper
1:38.0	appreciation of your own limits? How then would you live? Do I think Berkman or anyone really has
1:45.5	that the answer to that question?
1:47.0	No.
1:47.7	But I do think he asks good questions
1:49.9	and he curates good questions and insights.
1:53.9	And questions are often more useful than answers.
1:57.3	As always, my email, Ezraklundshow at nytimes.com.
2:09.7	Thank you. As always, my email, Ezraklundshow at NYTimes.com. Oliver Berkman, welcome to the show.
	...

Transcript will be available on the free plan in -83 days. Upgrade to see the full transcript now.

Previous episode | Next episode

Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from New York Times Opinion, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.

Generated transcripts are the property of New York Times Opinion and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.