This program is sponsored by the Covley Foundation based in Los Angeles, California.

The Covley Foundation is dedicated to advancing science for the benefit of humanity.

I'm Alan Older, and this is Clear and Vivid, Conversations about Connecting and Communicating.

She was so close to dying, she looked like a wet washcloth.

I said, leave her with me, it'll soon be time for her to be flying and we'll manage

the release from my backyard here.

But things happened that were unexpected, that caused a delay in that process.

That's Carl Saphina.

And the unexpected delays to was releasing that baby owl turned into a remarkable and intimate

relationship.

His new book, Alfie and me, What Owls Know, What Humans Believe, is a lyrical description

of how the COVID locked down, nurtured that relationship.

But the book is more than that, Alfie's story is also an opportunity for Carl to explore

Western culture's flawed relationship with the rest of nature.

Carl it's great to see you again.

That's so great to see you Alan, thank you.

Last time you were here, we had a wonderful talk about your previous book, where you talked

about the feelings and the thinking capacities of other animals.

And now I get the impression that this book called Alfie and me is about an experience

that maybe went deeper than any other one you've had with an animal.

Is that true?

I think that is true, I think that's true.

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