The Art of Leadership Network.

If we could remove the burden of, I have to be bigger year after year, from the shoulders of every single pastor in the world.

Welcome to the Kerry Newhoff Leadership Podcast.

It's Carrie here, and I hope our time together today helps you thrive in life and leadership.

Hey, whatever you're doing, wherever you are, whether you're at the gym, on a ride, on a walk,

whether you are driving in your car, or whether you're cooking dinner or whatever you happen to be doing, welcome.

We're really glad that you're here.

Hey, this podcast is free to

you, but your time is valuable. And what we try to do is deliver a ton of value. Today, my guest

is Carl Vader. So we're going to talk about desizing the church. Vast majority of churches are 200

people or less. We're going to talk about the drug of size. This is true for all of us who struggle

with size like I do. All right. I want things to be bigger and better all the time and the good,

the bad, and the ugly of the church growth movement and what small and large churches can get

right. Today's episode is brought to you by glue and by compassion. Just go to glue.us slash connection.

Use the code carry save 20 for an additional 20% off, a subscription that gets you 50 direct mailers

to new families in your church to help you connect with people who are looking for your church

and compassion. I have partnered with compassion for over a decade, and I want to encourage your church

and maybe you personally to get involved to learn more.

Go to compassion.com slash carry.

So as I talk about in the podcast, Carl and I were in Germany speaking at the Global Leadership

Summit earlier this year.

And actually just today, I got an email from a guy named Friedrich Stahl, who has gone

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