The Art of Leadership Network.

Are you weary or are you wounded?

Because those are not the same thing.

Those are not the same thing.

And if you are weary, then okay, let's talk about your schedule.

Let's build in a summer break.

We can figure that out.

If you're wounded, you cannot sabbatical your way into healing if you're wounded.

Welcome to the Kerry Newhoff Leadership podcast. It's Carrie here, and I hope our time together today helps you thrive in life and leadership today. What do you do in an age

when no one trusts pastors? I mean, very few. I mean, yeah, some people do, but for the most

part, we're at a historic low. I'm sitting down with Glenn Packham. We're going to talk about that.

The next-gen church leader mental health crisis, something that's very close to my heart.

And we'll talk about the difference between being weary and being wounded. So Glenn Paciam is a

pastor, author, and practical theologian who currently serves as the lead pastor of Rock Harbor

Church. Prior to this, he served at New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado as the lead pastor

of New Life downtown. He's the author of several books, including the resilient

pastor, and, well, he's got a new book, too, that we will touch on today as well. He's also written

over 65 worship songs, did you know that, including your name. I have known Glenn for years. Just

found that out. Hey, if you're new here, so glad that you're joining us. Welcome.

We are so honored that you would be here. What I want to do is I want to take you behind the scenes

to have the kind of conversation you would have. If you were sitting down over coffee or dinner or

in a green room with Glenn Packham, that's what we're going to do today. So we're going to jump

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