I'm Alan Alda and this is clear and vivid conversations about connecting and communicating. I have this dualism in the book.

I say some people are diminishers and some people are illuminators.

And diminishers aren't curious about people and they

stereotype and they label. And one of the things that diminisher will do is

called stacking. And that's if I know one thing about you you supported Donald Trump.

Then I proceed under the assumption that I know 8 million things about you and that's

stacking and illuminators on the other hand make you feel lit up and warm.

They're persistently curious about you.

They want to know your backstory.

And they make you feel great because they really warmly pay attention to the stories you tell about yourself.

That's New York Times columnist David Brooks and as you'll hear in our conversation

he calls himself a grower.

He's grown as a person, he says, over his 60-something years,

in part through the books he's written exploring how people see themselves and see others. His most recent book tells how the people he's met, many of

them very different from himself, have given him insights into, as the book's

title puts it, how to know a person, the art of seeing others deeply

and being deeply seen.

Well this is a wonderful book you've written. Oh, thank you.

It's challenging for me personally because I've spent most of my life as an actor and as a person trying to learn how to

relate to people, people right in front of me.

And you really examined it, and in a very personal way.

It's admirable how personally you are.

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