This program is sponsored by the Kavli Foundation based in Los Angeles, California.

The Kavli Foundation is dedicated to advancing science for the benefit of humanity. I'm Alan Alda, and this is clear and vivid conversations about connecting and communicating.

These octopuses were pushing pill models into a stream of water that was circulating in the aquarium and allowing the

pill bottle to return to them and then using the jet to push it back into the

stream of water and letting it happen again and again.

They were in effect, as one of the researchers put it bouncing at the ball,

and they did it at least 10 times.

There's no confusion about what kind of behavior that was at least for these

researchers and they said it's it's not exploration it's not about food it's not

about hunting it's not about escaping from predators they were doing it because this was a fun thing to do.

That's David Toomey.

And as he tells me in our conversation,

octopuses aren't the only creatures that are unexpectedly

playful. Crows, rats, pigs, dolphins play, even bees play. Play in fact not only seems to be an important shaper of basic survival

skills among many species including our own, but play may also help generate empathy, even morality.

He suggests that having fun may even play a role in evolution.

His new book is Kingdom of Play. You've written a really interesting account of how animals other than us play.

I wasn't aware of how many animals play in such diverse ways, octopuses, pigs, crows.

The video I saw online that you recommended everybody to look at of crows sliding,

is just extraordinary.

Before we get to the big questions of what play is

and what it's for, I'd appreciate it

...