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Pitchfork Economics with Nick Hanauer

Does the market really pay you what you’re worth? (with Marshall Steinbaum and Saru Jayaraman)

Pitchfork Economics with Nick Hanauer

Civic Ventures

Business, Government, News, Politics

4.81.5K Ratings

🗓️ 10 September 2019

⏱️ 50 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

The theory of marginal product of labor says that every worker is paid exactly what they’re worth—the value that their labor generates. Employers cite marginal productivity to legitimize paying the lowest wages possible, but it’s just another trickle-down scam. Economist Marshall Steinbaum and food labor expert Saru Jayaraman join us this week to expose the lie of marginal productivity and show how it’s been used to exploit workers for centuries. Marshall Steinbaum is an Assistant Professor of Economics at the University of Utah and a Senior Fellow of Higher Education Finance at the Jain Family Institute. He studies market power in labor markets and its policy implications. He was previously a Senior Economist and Fellow at the Roosevelt Institute, and a Research Economist at the Center for Equitable Growth. Twitter: @Econ_Marshall Saru Jayaraman is the Co-Founder and President of the Restaurant Opportunities Centers United (ROC United) and Director of the Food Labor Research Center at the University of California, Berkeley. Saru authored ‘Behind the Kitchen Door’, a national bestseller, and her most recent book is ‘Forked: A New Standard for American Dining.’ Twitter: @SaruJayaraman Further reading No, Productivity Does Not Explain Income: https://evonomics.com/no-productivity-does-not-explain-income/ ROC United Diners’ Guide App: https://rocunited.org/diners-guide/ Saru Jayaraman: How Restaurant Workers Are Inheriting a Legacy of Slavery in the U.S.: https://bioneers.org/saru-jayaraman-restaurant-workers-inheriting-legacy-slavery-u-s-ztvz1712/ Evidence and Analysis of Monopsony Power, Including But Not Limited To, In Labor Markets: https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/public_comments/2018/08/ftc-2018-0054-d-0006-151013.pdf Antitrust and Labor Market Power: https://econfip.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Antitrust-and-Labor-Market-Power.pdf Why Are Economists Giving Piketty the Cold Shoulder? http://bostonreview.net/class-inequality/marshall-steinbaum-why-are-economists-giving-piketty-cold-shoulder

Transcript

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0:00.0

The way to make workers worth more is to give them greater skills, get more higher education

0:05.1

degrees.

0:06.1

That whole sort of genre of argument is premised on a certain assumption about how the labor market

0:10.2

works, that workers are paid with their're worth and that assumption is false.

0:13.2

I'm an electrician by trade. I make $18 an hour about the exact same as my uncle who did this

0:19.9

back in the 80s. If it's not marginal product that determines

0:23.9

how much you make, what is it?

0:25.2

It's power.

0:26.2

From the offices of Civic Ventures in downtown Seattle, this is Pitch Fork Economics with

0:38.3

Nick Hanauer, where we explore everything you wished you'd learn in Econ 101.

0:48.4

I'm Nick Hanauer, founder of Civic Ventures.

0:51.5

I'm David Goldstein, Senior Fellow at Civic Ventures.

0:57.0

So Nick, before I started working for you, I worked for The Stranger and Alt Weekly, where I wrote like 3, 4, 5 blog posts a day plus had, I don't know, 600, 2,000 words due in the paper that week.

1:12.1

And I got paid very little money and then I came to work for you and you

1:15.9

You're paying me so much more than I made it the stranger so so as I understand econ 101

1:21.9

I'm a lot more productive now with you, right?

1:25.6

My marginal product is so much higher to justify this higher wage.

1:30.0

Yeah.

1:31.0

Yeah, that super sad part is you're probably about a third as productive,

1:37.1

and you earn three times as much.

1:39.5

Quality versus quantity, Nick.

1:42.1

Yeah, I don't.

...

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