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We have with us today Samuel Goldman.

He teaches political science at George Washington University,

where he is also the executive director of the Loeb Institute for Religious Freedom.

He's the author of God's Country, Christian Zionism in America, but he has a new book.

It's our topic today. It is entitled, After Nationalism, Being American in an Age of Division.

Welcome, Professor Goldman. Thank you for having me, Mark. All right. What is, we're going to, we jump,

on the show, we jump right into the book.

What is the popular misunderstanding of the phrase e pluribus unum?

I think that it's usually understood as a promise that Americans of different backgrounds and origins and affiliations and tastes

will be unified into a cohesive American people.

And this is an understanding of the phrase that became particularly popular around the middle of the 20th century.

But if you look back to its early uses in the 18th century, it actually means something different.

It's a reference to the union of the states. And I think that one of the

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