Thanks for downloading the in-artime podcast. For more details about in-artime and for our terms of use

Please go to bbc.co.uk forward slash radio 4. I hope you enjoy the program

Hello is democracy the truest conduit of capitalism or do the forces that make us rich run counter in the end to the democratic institutions that safeguard our rights?

The Economist Milton Friedman once said if freedom weren't so economically efficient, it wouldn't stand a chance

If that was ever true, is it still the case as we enter the era of the globalized economy?

With me to discuss the relationship between democracy human rights and the economy is the Nobel Prize winner economist

Amati Asain who's master of Trinity College came rich and author of

Development as freedom. I'm also joined by Will Hutton former editor of the observer and newly installed director of the industrial society

He invented the term stakeholder society in his book The State We're in

Amati Asain in the lectures you get the world bank and the book that's come out of them you take an evaluative approach

Which is distinct from traditional economic policy analysis?

What's your main objective to outline a new definition of poverty?

Well, it's not so much to redefine poverty. I think we know what poverty is that we we know that poverty consists of powerlessness

Primarily the powerlessness to to be able to feed oneself to get medical treatment the kind of economic means that we need

But powerlessness could take other forms to not being able to

Express oneself getting beaten up and attacked if on excesses of the contrary view. So it just takes the

Unfreedom the lack of freedom

Which is really the underlying force the underlying rationale behind thinking of poverty as low income

Is that broadening that I tried to pursue so I wouldn't see it as

redefining poverty but really exploring the implications of taking a more

Evaluative view of poverty understanding poverty in terms of its motivation rather than just its symptoms

Do you think this is rooting you to E of you has its roots in utilitarianism?

...