Ep. 131: To Train Up A Child (Michael and Debi Pearl / No Greater Joy Ministries / Child Abuse / Parenting)

Leaving Eden Podcast

Leaving Eden LLC

True Crime, Cult, History, Survivor, Theology, Exfundie, Religion, Lgbtq, Christianity, Exvangelical, Documentary, Fundamentalism, Baptist, Religion & Spirituality, Society & Culture, Deconstruction, Inspirational Women, Duggars, Inspirational

4.5 • 709 Ratings

🗓️ 1 May 2023

⏱️ 135 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

On this episode, Sadie and Gavi are once again joined by Dr. Shoshana Fagen, who lends her considerable expertise to the discussion of the ubiquitous and infamous fundamentalist parenting book/child abuse manual, "To Train Up A Child," By Michael and Debi Pearl. The techniques recommended in this book have been used by fundamentalist families like the Duggars for decades. Together with Shoshana, they examine how truly horrible and harmful this book is, and what healing from this sort of upbringing might look like.

TW: In general we talk about a lot of potentially triggering topics on this show, including but not limited to suicide and mental health, racism, misogyny, PTSD and PTSD symptoms, child abuse, mental, physical, and sexual abuse, and spiritual abuse including guilt, shame, and fear. In most episodes we’ll mention at least a few of these topics, but we try very hard to avoid graphic detail unless it’s relevant to the story we’re telling, and we do our best to give the audience a heads-up before going into detail on any of these topics. This Entire Episode carries a trigger warning for child abuse, specifically, hitting, spanking, hitting with implements, what implements are recommended to hit your child, how to break a child’s spirit. We will of course be validating survivors of such abuse, talking scientifically about why it’s not okay, trying to use language that’s less triggering, but it is the topic of the episode. We will also more briefly mention topics such as complimentarianism, wives submitting to husbands, marital rape, and briefly mention the deaths of several children which were related to the teachings put forth in this book.

Parenting resources recommended by Dr. Fagen:

https://healthychildren.org
How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish
1-2-3 magic by Thomas W. Phelan, PhD
The Explosive Child by Ross Green (anything by Ross Green, PhD, about Collaborative Problem Solving or Collaborative and Proactive Solutions)
The Good Inside podcast, hosted by Dr. Becky Kennedy, is a weekly broadcast of parenting tools and strategies that are presented in a digestible and actionable way. www.goodinside.com (If you are willing to promote another podcast that is)
National Association of School Psychologists have several publications and blogs regarding many topics that bother parents (https://www.nasponline.org/resources-and-publications/resources-and-podcasts)

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Transcript

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0:00.0	I'm John Robbins, and joining me on How Do You Coke this week is the musician Justin Hawkins.
0:05.2	How big a meatloaf fan, I.
0:06.5	A big meatloaf fan.
0:08.0	I remember he came over to me, grabbed me, and he squeezed me, and he said to me,
0:12.2	I want you to think of me as your father.
0:15.0	And he had like sausage on his breath.
0:17.8	So every time I smell sage and pork, I think of meatloaf.
0:21.8	So that's how do you cope with me,
0:23.3	John Robbins.
0:24.1	Find us wherever you get your podcasts.
0:29.9	Roll, rolling river of time.
0:39.5	You've healed me in too many days.
0:46.9	No regrets, no confusion.
0:51.0	There'll be no pollution.
0:54.1	I'm so thankful I've decided to change. there'll be no pollution.
1:00.7	I'm so thankful I've decided to change my ways.
1:10.1	Welcome back to the Leaving Eden podcast.
1:12.5	My name is Gavriel Hakoen.
1:17.7	And I am cult survivor, cult expert, Sadie Carpenter. And today we have a topic that we've been asked about many, many, many, many, many times.
1:23.6	And it's one of those topics that it's almost like it's ubiquitous within fundamentalism
1:30.2	is that people talk about this.
1:32.4	Well, it is.
	...

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