Spirituality, the way I define it, is connectedness, connectedness to self and outside of self.

For some people that includes a divine, for some people it doesn't.

I talk a lot, for example, about the four existential fears were really driven by our fear of

meaninglessness, fear of isolation, fear of death, fear of freedom.

Meaninglessness, isolation, freedom.

It's like their spiritual house came down with some kind of deconstruction,

but the scaffolding, all the ways of thinking Mormon, are still there.

And so they'll get stuck because they're trying to kind of rebuild their own spiritual home again after it kind of crumbles.

But then all the old scaffolding is still there.

Meaninglessness, isolation, freedom.

I have a master's degree in theology and the future of American religion.

I've written a book on Mormon philosophy.

I've just really been playing in this space of religion and theology and what is real and spirituality.

And I guess now where I like to play is this space of secular spirituality,

which is this approach of how can I get these spiritual tools with as little demands of belief as possible.

Like how do I get the present without the Santa?

How? How?

Maybe we need to play a different game.

Maybe the game we need to play is how can I build a meaningful spiritual, rich, transcendent, beautiful, flourishing life when I don't know ultimate reality.

Because the world is round, it turns me on.

This is infants on thrones.

Baby steps.

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