It's hardcore history.

A tantrum.

So the conversation that you're about to listen to was done through a format that I ripped

off from the people that we're talking with because I was on their podcast not that long

ago.

And I remember thinking that the way that they put it together structurally was fantastic

for three people because when you have three people in a conversation, it can get unwieldy

sometimes.

I thought they did a great job.

The show I thought went fantastic.

And in fact, I liked it so much that I thought I'd like to do a version of sort of a part

two, if you will, on our own podcast.

So perhaps it's fair to say part one is available from the archives of the rest is history

podcast.

And well, this is part two.

The guest on the program, the hosts of that podcast, Dominic Sandbrook and Tom Holland,

both writers, TV presenters, radio hosts.

I mean, they have very varied careers.

And while Dominic's point of emphasis is usually more in the 1970s, 1980s, sometimes Churchill

stuff, Tom Holland rolls around in the mud that we like to roll around and often.

And I've used his books for research materials.

I think we used Persian fire for the Persian shows.

...