I think there's a principle we need to talk about because whenever I bring this up with people I work with they don't believe me They're kind of like nah because they believe

that we change from a place where we don't like ourselves where we are

think we're the bottom we've hit the, the only place to go is up and so we think we

change from a place of fear and shame. But actually the truth is and the research shows this over and over again is that we change from a place of acceptance, a place of acceptance and love, first from ourselves, then from others and also from the institutions that we're a part of.

Hello, I'm Cynthia Wynward.

And I'm Susan Hinckley.

And this is at last she said it.

We are women of faith discussing complicated things.

And the title of today's episode is

What about shame and guilt part two?

Thanks for coming back, Susan, because what a fun topic.

It's a great topic.

Do you think I can live through another conversation about this Cynthia? I'll tell you why I can because

CA Larson is here to discuss it with us. So it's all good.

It is all good.

Let's roll it.

So the author E. L. Kunxburg said,

before you can be anything, you have to be yourself. That's the hardest thing to find.

So I think that's the journey that we're all on is to find ourselves, but that that's really what makes a difference in how we are dealing with guilt and

shame is that if we know ourselves and we can take those things in and and

know whether or not they're real and resonate for us versus there's something

someone else wants us to believe about ourselves or believe about our world.

...