Hi, James. Ben, how are you? Well, following the cardinal rule of exponent, which is if you ever actually write an article, we absolutely have to record a podcast.

I was sitting there last night and I was like, man, I just need an excuse to sit up and sit up till 3am in the morning. And I was like, what better, what better excuse than writing about

Intel and disruption and Apple? That feels like a pretty good reason to do it. Yeah, I have to say,

I mean, I wrote about the same event in Apple and Intel and chips and whatnot, but, you know,

it's always, it's always good to go back to the disruption well. And I have to say, uh, all compliments to you, because we will put a link in the show

notes to your article. But in the article, you take this graph from Anandtech, which I also used in,

in my article that shows how sort of the Apple A chip has been increasing more rapidly that

Intel is overtaking it. And you compared it to like the, the generic sort of disruption graph. It's like a perfect match.

Spot on. Brilliant. That was that was such a great. That was such a great sort of juxtaposition.

This is, I guess, one of the advantages of having hung around clay for a bit. I saw versions of that

graph numerous times in class or subsequently. And so literally, having hung around clay for a bit, I saw versions of that graph, uh,

numerous times in class or subsequently.

And so literally that Anintech graph got posted to Twitter and I saw it and I'm like,

oh my God,

like in terms of matching it perfectly and then I don't know,

and we should get into it,

but the history of Andy Grove and Clay,

Andy found out about Clay's research pretty early on in Clay's life as an academic and

called up Clay and asked him to come in and to talk to him about, like, you know, what's going on with this disruption thing and how it applied to Intel.

What was the time period for this?

This was in the mid-90s.

And I think, like, his first book was published in 95 or 96, right?

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