This is a party with a problem and its problem is that even when self preservation argues for doing the bolder thing, they're like, mm-mm, not going to do that. So, All right. I am really, really glad to welcome back to Bad faith podcast, John Nichols.

You know him as the National Affairs Correspondent

for the Nation.

He's written or co-written or edited

over a dozen books on topics ranging from histories of American socialism, the Democratic Party,

to the US and global media systems, and most recently co-wrote a book with Senator Bernie Sanders

titled, It's OK to be angry about capitalism.

Thank you for joining us back again on bad faith.

It's a great honor to be with you,

and this really is one of my favorite podcasts,

so I'm, you know, I feel like I've risen to a higher level today.

Well John I mean I feel like you're really baked into the the manna of bad faith because you were there for such a pivotal moment not just in

podcasting history.

Was it you who was there when the storm the capital or was it Thomas Frank?

I can't remember.

I think.

I remember the day of the capital storming I was doing a lot of radio and it was fascinating

because there's a guy named Jeff Santos who has a good radio show and has had it for many many years and it happened

I had a regularly scheduled

gig with him. It was in Wisconsin so I was busy calling people and trying to

figure out what all was going on and then it was time for Jeff show and I

thought well you know I owe him this debt you know what I mean he? He's been a good, I've always done it.

...