The So, I'm really excited to have this guest today on Bad Faith Podcast.

Sheer, Heather, is the coordinator of the military embargo

campaign of the BDS movement, something we've talked a lot about

over the years, in particular after October 7th, but haven't had a chance to really drill in more deeply on.

So welcome, Sheer, I'm really looking forward to this conversation.

Thanks for having me.

All right, so when you, it's described as the military embargo campaign of the BDS movement,

what strikes me right up top is that oftentimes in the contemporary conversation we're talking

about what seemed to be sort of ad hoc movements of people who read a story about Starbucks passing out drinks to idf soldiers or people in Indonesia who associate KFC with the United States of America

and who are boycotting Kentucky Fried Chicken restaurants in heavily Muslim countries like Indonesia. And previously before October 7th we were

talking about BDS largely in the context of various American laws that

attempted to make illegal or criminalize or at least create consequences for

individuals who subscribed to BDS. We had happy Martin on talking about how she

encountered one of these laws when she tried to get I believe a grant to speak at a

university down in the south but you're talking about it from a much more

strategic and comprehensive and less ad hoc perspective so from your perspective talk to us about what the BDS movement is and how it is designed to work.

The BDS movement was launched in 2005 by Palestinian Civil Society organizations exactly with this aim in mind to have a strategic sustained pressure campaign to promote the application of international law, human rights, equal rights, and there are three very clear demands.

It's not just to express our outrage, but really we're trying to change reality by putting this pressure. So the idea is to have a whole

series of campaigns of many different kinds. You've mentioned some of the recent ones, but the

campaigns have started already in 2005, and there are academic boycotts,

there are cultural boycotts, there are consumer boycotts, all which are organized by grassroots

groups and civil society organizations and activists in

...