we have to stop focusing on who these people are and what they quote unquote represent in terms of

their physical appearance and more about who they represent because of who's paid them and filled

their campaign coffers. I'm what you on that. I'm what you on that. But here's my point. When you said,

let me turn this around. It ain't my podcast, but I want to ask you, since I got a smart person like you here,

what is the alternative? What is the practicable,

allowable, permissible politics that can be exercised in order for to yield a benefit to the people

that you and I are both concerned about? What is that? Okay, so there's two things. Even if a Green Party

doesn't win, I think you have to look to the historical precedents here

and recognize that when there is a strong outside party, like we had with the Communist and Socialist parties in the New Deal era,

that it was the labor organizing and outside political agitation from those groups that

forced an FDR-type figure to adopt the new society programs that continue to be the bedrock

of our social safety net.

So even if you don't believe that the Democratic Party will or should fall, everybody who

wants the Democratic Party to be better and not just give it

lip service like, oh, I agree with the left, but no, genuinely wants the Democratic Party to serve

its people to root for a third party to push it to where it needs to go. Secondly, I would say,

I personally don't think the Democratic Party is going to be moved. I think Post Citizens United, the full on embrace of money and politics by both parties is a very difficult thing to untangle. They're never going to vote to unwind those interests. You have people like Nancy Pelosi who are multi-millionaires who have earned an enormous amount while they were in office somehow who oppose bills to preclude her from

insider training every time those bills threaten to come to the floor.

They're never going to vote against their own interests.

And I think that we have to support third parties.

It's going to be a long road.

It's going to be hard.

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