Harvard University, the oldest, most prominent university in the country. What's your take on this?

Yeah, I mean, it's a pretty serious threat, and it shows how vindictive Donald Trump can be when someone stands up to him.

But, you know, I've been on the phone all day with people at Harvard, and they're feeling

like somebody had to do this. I mean, you know, the Trump administration was cracking down on

law firms across the country, was cracking down on institutions of higher learning, was going after the media.

And a lot of, you know, these law firms and colleges were settling and agreeing to the Trump

administration's terms and making payments to him and so forth.

And they really feel like somebody had to fight and somebody had to say, no, we're not

going to, we're not going to take this. And if that means they take a, you know, several billion

dollar hit, well, maybe they're the one institution that's rich enough and powerful enough that can,

that can stand up for themselves and in doing so inspire others to do so.

So yes, there's a serious threat against them, and they're putting a lot on the line by fighting,

but they feel they're inspiring others to do the same.

From ordinary Americans suggest to me that they have a keen understanding that when you start violating due process for any human

beings, even if they are not a citizen, that threatens all of us. That threatens the entire

system. And I'm encouraged by that as well, but Kilmar Garcia, I hope that Trump has miscalculated.

And to your point, Mika, there's some evidence that maybe he has.

But what concerns me even more, though, is if this is not a constitutional crisis, what does a constitutional crisis then look like?

And is this a test case, a trial run for the Trump administration to try and do this with a U.S.

citizen, to try and defy Supreme Court orders on Social Security, on Doge, on any manner of other issues that are at the heart of our democracy for ordinary Americans.

And so if the system cannot hold now for Kilmar Garcia, will it hold for the rest of us? And that is, that is the question.

In so doing, it is continuing to press this argument that should terrify everyone, which is that

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