4.5 • 2.6K Ratings
🗓️ 3 March 2025
⏱️ 7 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Subscribe to Bad Faith on Patreon to instantly unlock this episode and our entire premium episode library: http://patreon.com/badfaithpodcast
Author and staff writer at The Atlantic Thomas Chatterton Williams returns to Bad Faith to discuss his controversial piece calling out conservatives for indulging in the kind of strict linguistic orthodoxy (see: "Gulf of America") and curtailment of speech they've long accused liberals of indulging in. He and Briahna discuss backlash from former wokescolds who didn't like to see themselves reflected in Thomas's piece, evaluate the respective roles BLM and October 7th played in shifting attitudes around "wokeness," and finally debate whether Thomas should be a socialist.
Subscribe to Bad Faith on YouTube for video of this episode. Find Bad Faith on Twitter (@badfaithpod) and Instagram (@badfaithpod).
Produced by Armand Aviram.
Theme by Nick Thorburn (@nickfromislands).
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
0:00.0 | It is sticky. It's what we have. So one knows what you mean when you talk about wokeness. |
0:05.2 | I'll just sketch it out. I'm not going to fall into your trap. |
0:09.6 | Because I was going to say quite famously. I know what I mean by it. I don't like it. But I know what I mean by it. |
0:17.1 | First and foremost is a way of sorting the world into groups of oppressors and groups of oppressed. |
0:23.2 | And then in that kind of binary, there becomes a status position that applies to anybody who can |
0:29.9 | be the victim in that duopoly. So oppressors are oppressed, be the victim. And then this way of thinking of reality as being organized into systems |
0:41.0 | that most people are not aware of and that, you know, you have to be awakened to, and you have to see |
0:46.2 | through the systems, and then you're in a state of exception where the normal rules, procedures, |
0:52.5 | values, and informal norms of liberal democracy no longer apply because you have to |
0:57.9 | write the kind of power imbalance on behalf of the victims. So you suspend things like |
1:03.5 | brief speech that in more liberal times you would extend even to your opponents because you |
1:07.6 | understand that this is a value that everybody benefits from upholding. |
1:11.6 | But that doesn't apply in times of wokeness. |
1:13.6 | And so that was certainly something that the left indulged in to great excess when they were ascendant. |
1:20.6 | And it's been very interesting to see that they haven't been replaced by a movement on the right that is genuinely conservative, that is interested in procedure, |
1:30.3 | or interested in simply moderating back from the excesses of this kind of illiberalism, |
1:35.0 | but is in fact replacing it with a very distorted and perverse mirror image of that same excess, |
1:41.1 | but for the team in charge now, but using also the real force of the |
1:45.7 | government in the process. And so you have the same kind of cancel culture, you have the same |
1:50.4 | dictated language, compelled speech, opinions that are verboten, this kind of power play through |
1:56.1 | neologism and making people say the pre-approved vocabulary. And then you also have this real dislike of any |
2:03.1 | type of in-group contrary. And there's no space for minority opinions within the group. There's |
... |
Transcript will be available on the free plan in 17 days. Upgrade to see the full transcript now.
Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Bad Faith, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.
Generated transcripts are the property of Bad Faith and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.
Copyright © Tapesearch 2025.