The freedom that we have is being more and more restrictive and the legal system is being more and more repressive.

Richard Legutko fought for freedom in Poland as an underground editor in the Solidarity Movement,

but after democracy was restored in Poland, he began

seeing something he didn't expect.

There are some tendencies that remind me of what was happening under the Communist regime.

I find it really astonishing.

He observed that despite being free,

liberal democracies display some unsettling some unsettling characteristics.

There is some kind of convergence

of the totalitarian tendencies which we had under communism.

A professor, philosopher, and most recently a politician, Richard Legutko explains his argument in his

book, The Demon in Democracy.

This is American Thought Leaders and I'm Yanya Kelleck.

The Shah Blagutko, such a pleasure to have you on American thought leaders.

Thank you for having me.

I've been reading your book, The Demon in Democracy, and you make some pretty

startling observations. And I actually want to start there because you're you're issuing a challenge to liberal democracy itself.

It's kind of shocking. I mean, obviously it's the best system we have,? Well not necessarily well the book has several

layers but the main point I'm making is that the political system which is called liberal democracy

which you find here in the States or in Europe, Western, Eastern New Zealand, Australia, Canada, that this system resembles more and more what we had under the communist regime.

There is some kind of convergence I would say of the totalitarian tendencies which we had under communism, some kind of despotic tendencies in the countries I mentioned,

all considered to be liberal democratic.

...