Yeah, I love the tactics, love the practical approach there. And it's just because it's so simple.

Early years, I was already entrepreneurial. I was looking for what is a shorter path, right?

There's one story I want you to tell on that because one thing that I talk a lot about here on the

show is credibility and authority through leveraging relationships and

the trust that other people have taken decades of their life to build.

Correct.

And when you were going out on your own, you back in the day with cassette tapes or CDs

or something, you put together. So or CDs or something. Yes, yes.

So here's a story.

So here's a story. So I was 20 somewhat years old, right?

I had zero credibility.

Who is this guy?

Who's this like Asian kid with spiky hair and glasses, writing copy?

What the hell is this, right?

So I thought, hmm, what can I do to leverage and actually borrow credibility from some other people, right?

Because I was actually talking to a few copywriters, seasonal, experienced copywriters, right?

And I was talking with them and say, so what do you do? How do you get to where you are?

They all say the same thing to me. Here's what they said.

Then you gotta do a lot of free gigs.

A lot of free gigs for many years.

You build up your portfolio and finally you can charge a little bit of money.

Then after that, then maybe then you do some pay gigs, still not too much until I don't know,

...