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The Gray Area with Sean Illing

How to live in uncertain times

The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Vox Media Podcast Network

Society & Culture, News, Politics, News Commentary, Philosophy

4.610.8K Ratings

🗓️ 17 March 2025

⏱️ 53 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Humans hate uncertainty. It makes us feel unsafe and uneasy. We often organize our lives to avoid it. When it's foisted upon us, we don’t always know how to act. But writer and journalist Maggie Jackson argues that uncertainty can actually be good for us, and that we’re doing ourselves a disservice by avoiding it. She tells Sean that embracing uncertainty can spark creativity, improve problem solving skills, and help us lead better, more hopeful lives. This episode originally aired in January 2024. Host: Sean Illing (@SeanIlling) Guest: Maggie Jackson, author of Uncertain: The Wisdom and Wonder of Being Unsure Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

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0:05.0

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0:12.0

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0:19.0

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0:22.8

co-innovate at scale, and build digital and in-person experiences with confidence. The best brands

0:29.9

don't guess. They test. See how at usertesting.com slash audio.

0:40.6

Support for the show comes from Pilot.

0:46.5

Did you know that in 2025 there are over 10 major tax deadlines you need to track?

0:51.0

And if you miss one, you could be facing some pretty hefty fines or penalties.

0:56.4

Pilot has created a simple tax calendar that sends you reminders all year long,

1:01.9

so you'll never miss a deadline again. Remember, when it comes to taxes, there's no offseason.

1:07.6

Pilot's team of accounting and finance experts are always looking for ways to simplify how you run your business, so you can stay focused on growing your business and your

1:12.2

customer's satisfaction. Go to pilot.com slash Vox to sign up. No subscription required. That's

1:19.8

pilot.com slash Vox. It shouldn't surprise anyone to hear me say that I'm a fan of uncertainty.

1:30.5

After all, this podcast is called the gray area for a reason.

1:34.5

We try to live in the nuance as much as possible, and we try to explore questions with an open mind.

1:40.3

And it's not just a schick for me.

1:45.6

I really believe that openness is a necessity, especially today, when the loudest, most

1:52.0

obnoxious voices take up so much of the oxygen.

1:56.1

But I wouldn't say that tolerance of uncertainty comes naturally to me. Like most people, I like to be

2:03.3

right, and I fear the unknown. The temptation to retreat into certainty is always there. I think most

2:11.0

of us are like that. So why is this the case? What is it about uncertainty that's so scary?

...

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