Hey, friends. Welcome back to another episode of Theology in the Raw. The Exiles of Babylon

Conference is now open for registration April 3rd to 5th, 2025 in Minneapolis, Minnesota. We are

going to tackle lots of really crucial topics, including gospel and race after George Floyd,

transgender people to church, two different views on social justice and the gospel,

that a dialogical

debate about whether evangelicalism is good for this country. That's going to be a really fun one.

And we are running an early bird special. So if you want to come, you have to register before

December 31st to take to take advantage of that early bird special. Theology draw.com.

All the information is there. My guest today is

Caleb Campbell, who is the lead pastor of Desert Springs Bible Church in Phoenix, Arizona. He's

currently a doctoral student at Fuller Theological Seminary. And he just released a book,

well, last summer he released a book called Disarming Leviathan that it equips Christians

to minister to their Christian nationalist neighbors.

I was really fascinated with this conversation.

We talk about Christian nationalism, but even more importantly, we talk about how to best have

healthy, fruitful, loving conversations with people who are maybe in a certain

ideological framework

that isn't that helpful.

And Caleb has

just done a

masterful job

trying to navigate

...