Just a note a few hours after Elizabeth and I recorded this episode, the Washington Post reported that the Justice Department is in fact

investigating Donald Trump's actions as part of its criminal probe of efforts to overturn the 2020 election results.

In an interview that aired that same day, Attorney General Merrick Garland told NBC Nightly

News, quote, we intend to hold everyone, anyone who was criminally responsible for the events

surrounding January 6th for any attempt to interfere with the lawful transfer of power from

one administration to another accountable.

So we're recording on Tuesday, July 26, at 11.14 a.m.

And what are we going to talk about today?

All right, Roman, let's go back. and what are we going to talk about today?

All right, Roman, let's go back to February 12th, 2021.

And that was the third day of oral argument in Trump's second impeachment trial.

Now, the House had passed one article of impeachment

that accused Trump of incitement of insurrection.

The Senate trial, of course, was accusing Trump who was no longer president at that point of

provoking the January 6th attack on the capital and Trump's defense team had been permitted to use up to 16 hours, but in the end they used just three.

And his lawyers focused on three points.

First, that the second impeachment was just a political stunt to make

sure that Trump would not run for a second term. Second, that Trump's big lie that the

election was stolen, that there was massive voter-for-? that the

big lie that the election was stolen, that there was massive voter fraud,

wasn't criminal incitement.

Instead, everything Trump said, everything

...