This is the Jockel Underground Podcast.

I'm sitting here with Echo Charles once again.

Seemed to be sitting with you on a fairly regular basis,

which can be a little bit annoying,

but it's all good.

Challenging.

Sure, I understand.

So I was, I was, look, every day for me,

I'm thinking through things and one thing I was thinking

about the other day, I got into some situations,

started handling some things and I realized how much I relied

and how much I see good leaders rely on being balanced,

on not getting themselves into extreme situations

or into attitudes where they're handling things

in an extreme manner.

Now, this is obviously nothing new.

In fact, it's so nothing new that when I was on Tim Ferris'

podcast, the first time, which I had never been interviewed

before and he asked me what makes a good leader

and I said number one, humility.

I said number two, someone that is balanced.

So again, the past week, I've been in some scenarios

...