Lawfare Daily: ‘The Rivalry Peril’ with Van Jackson and Michael Brenes

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4.7 • 6.2K Ratings

🗓️ 13 March 2025

⏱️ 52 minutes

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Summary

On today’s episode, Van Jackson, Professor of International Relations at Victoria University of Wellington, and Michael Brenes, Associate Director of the Brady-Johnson Program in Grand Strategy and Lecturer in History at Yale University, join Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien to talk about their new book, “The Rivalry Peril: How Great-Power Competition Threatens Peace and Weakens Democracy,” in which they make the case for the United States to take a less aggressive approach to China. They discussed the pitfalls of great power competition, the origins of the China threat, and why a destructive U.S.-China rivalry is our choice, rather than our destiny.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	The following podcast contains advertising.
0:04.4	To access an ad-free version of the Lawfare podcast, become a material supporter of Lawfare at
0:11.5	patreon.com slash lawfare. That's patreon.com slash lawfare.
0:18.2	Also, check out Lawfare's other podcast offerings, Rational Security, Chatter, Lawfare No Bull,
0:26.9	and The Aftermath.
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1:06.4	Orienting yourself in a primacist way toward the world, while the world is becoming more multipolar is just setting us up for like an explosion or an implosion, you know?
1:17.5	Like we're trying to take a greater share of power in a shrinking world where power is going in the opposite direction.
1:22.8	That makes us have to do more aggressive things and take more risks.
1:26.5	It's the Lawfare podcast. I'm Tyler McBrion, managing editor of lawfare, with Van
1:32.2	Jackson, Professor of International Relations at Victoria University of Wellington,
1:37.4	and Michael Brennis, Associate Director of the Brady Johnson Program in Grand Strategy,
1:42.3	and lecturer in history at Yale University.
1:45.6	Yeah, you can keep pursuing competition with the idea that we have to change
1:49.7	China's behavior because we don't like what it's doing, but I don't think you've gamed out
1:54.2	again what the end point of that is and taken stock of the consequences of it, you know,
1:59.1	both in human terms but also in sort of just
2:01.8	baseline numbers, economic terms.
	...

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