Lawfare Daily: Why Public Health is Critical to National Security

The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institute

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4.7 • 6.2K Ratings

🗓️ 2 April 2025

⏱️ 59 minutes

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Summary

Atul Gawande is a surgeon and a public health expert. He's also the former head of global health at the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), an agency that the Trump administration has prioritized for dismantling since its first day in office. On today's episode, Executive Editor Natalie Orpett sat down with Gawande to discuss what USAID does, the consequences of destroying it, and why public health is so important to U.S. national security.

Editor's Note: This episode was recorded on March 27, 2025. The following day, the Trump administration announced that USAID would be dissolved by the end of this fiscal year.

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0:00.0	The following podcast contains advertising.
0:04.4	To access an ad-free version of the Lawfare podcast, become a material supporter of Lawfare at
0:11.5	patreon.com slash lawfare. That's patreon.com slash lawfare.
0:18.2	Also, check out Lawfare's other podcast offerings, Rational Security, Chatter,
0:25.2	Lawfare No Bull, and The Aftermath. The Great and the Good signed up for his radical
0:35.1	psychiatric treatments, which were funded by private benefactors and the NHS.
0:40.3	But what Dr. Williams' sergeant was doing to his patients was truly chilling.
0:45.3	In the sleeproom, John Stock brings you the stories of patients experimented on without consent,
0:51.3	and often with horrific side effects.
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1:29.4	Fair use policy applies in go-Rome destinations.
1:31.6	Terms apply.
1:36.1	There is absolutely room for improvement, and I carried out some of that work to improve matters.
1:42.5	The wholesale shutdown is certainly not one of them.
1:45.4	And the throwing out of the entire program,
1:48.5	you know, they're pausing a jet airplane in mid-flight,
1:53.8	firing the crew and expecting it not to be a catastrophe.
1:57.8	It's become a massive loss of life.
	...

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