But we are absolutely designed to be attractive peers and to do everything possible to become attractive peers.

You know, testosterone as one example is not only there to make our voices lower and grow hair on our bodies and big muscles which is important for survival as you become an adult.

It's also there to clue us into the social zeitgeist. It's all about what's my role in this hierarchy and once kids hit puberty they care immensely more than they have before and more than they ever will again.

About how others perceive them.

And it's because of testosterone that we start to gauge ourselves against others.

And you know, it's not always competition and fighting in terms of fighting or outracing someone or being a better football player in various settings depending on what the culture is that will determine how people compete.

So, you know, in monasteries to bet and monks in training out of lesson boys compete to be more kind and compassionate than other to bet and Buddhist monks.

So one of the lessons here for parents is that you really want to think about what social groups your kid is in and you want to help to guide that as much as you can because if they're on the swim team and the goal is to be the fastest swimmer, that's like a really great goal to have or to be one of the better swimmers.

But if they're not getting fulfillment from swimming or academics or playing in a rock band or whatever else it is, they'll find themselves at the bottom of this pecking order.

And other brain changes will absolutely take effect that will make it more likely that they hang out with kids who aren't engaged in such exciting things and are not doing well in school and using drugs and that kind of thing.

I'm Strenie Rao and this is the unmistakable creative podcast where you get a window into the stories and insights of the most innovative and creative minds who've started movements, built driving businesses, written best selling books and created insanely interesting art.

For more, check out our 500 episode archive at unmistakablecreative.com.

Yes, welcome to the unmistakable creative. Thanks so much for taking the time to join us.

Thanks for having me on. I'm thrilled to be with you.

Yeah, it is my pleasure to have you here. So I was introduced to you by way of our mutual friend Megan Poe who is probably my favorite guest of the whole year.

You know, I had a fascinating conversation with her. So when she recommended you, I figured, okay, this is a no brainer.

Anybody who she sounds our way, I have to talk to. So I want to start by asking you what social group we owe part of in high school and how did that end up influencing the choices that you've made with your life in your career?

That's a great question. That's a really nice question.

I was a bit of a, I wouldn't say a loner in high school, but I straddled many groups and I often felt that I was sort of doing my own thing.

So I came into high school like everybody else, you know, suburb of San Francisco, moved from the same elementary school to the same middle school to the same high school.

Each year more kids were added or each, each jump to middle school than high school more kids were added.

But by the time I hit high school, I was trying to be like everybody else and I joined the football team and I played football.

...