Hey, everyone, it's Andrew Claven with this week's interview with Rod Dreher, who has a new book out, Living in Wonder, Finding Mystery and Meaning in a Secular Age.

And Rod obviously is the author of the bestselling the Benedict Option and Live Not by Lies,

which I've also read.

And I really enjoy reading Rod's work because he does something that I consider to be very brave,

which is that he searches in public, which means that sometimes you change your mind,

sometimes you say something at one point that you want to amend later on.

And we live in a weird, weird moment when that is looked upon as being a bad thing.

I mean, I gave this new book, Living and Wonder, Finding,

mystery, and meaning in a secular age. I gave it a blurb, and I received personal attacks because

Rod did not always follow the path that the person attacking me felt he should follow. But I think

that that is one of the wonderful things, actually, about examining the infinite. It's infinite.

So you're never going to get to the end of your search. And that is why I like reading these

books because I find them incredibly vital and alive. Rod, it's great to see you again. And thank you

for coming on. How you doing? Andrew, I'm doing well. Thanks for your kind words. And you know,

I'm the sort of guy who would much rather be with an honest liberal who admits they don't know everything and who's interested in life and curious about life than was someone who shared all of my convictions, but who did so in a lockstep way that it seemed to convey fear of the unknown and fear of mystery.

We have forgotten the great wisdom of Socrates, who knew that he knew nothing and

was, that alone made him the wisest man in Athens.

Well, let's talk a little bit about your personal journey before we get into the book.

When I read the Benedict option, you were a Catholic, you had been raised a Methodist,

but you would become a Catholic. And then after that, you became Eastern Orthodox. I mean,

make up your damn mind, Rodd. No, I actually, I became an Orthodox in 2006.

Okay. Long time ago, but you're right, I was Catholic for in 2006. Okay.

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