Welcome to the First Things podcast.

On this episode, I'll talk with editor Rusty Reno and senior editor Dan Hitchens about what happened in the Oval Office last week and what it might pretend for American foreign policy.

Then I'll hear from junior fellow Hermann Saucedo about the Oscars and why young people are suddenly watching movies.

I'm senior editor Julia Yost. Thanks for joining us.

Last Friday, Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy visited the White House to sign a mineral rights deal that was to be the first phase of a peace agreement to end or suspend

the war between Ukraine and Russia. Instead, a televised meeting in the Oval Office went sideways,

and Zelensky was sent home without his lunch. There were many points of contention.

Zelensky disputed the Americans' assumption that diplomacy can be pursued with Vladimir Putin. He repeated his desire for security guarantees. He warned that soon Russia would be at America's doorstep, and then the Americans would feel differently than they do now. Donald Trump finally adjourned the meeting by saying, this is going to be great television, I will say that.

Why this incident happened remains a mystery.

Critics of Trump have said that he and J.D. Vance ambushed Zelensky for some purpose in front of the cameras.

I find that interpretation hard to sustain if you watch the meeting from the start and observe Zelensky's sustained rudeness, which Trump tolerates until quite late.

My sense is that neither Trump nor Zelensky meant for this to happen, but Zelensky was being Zelensky.

He has a history of kind of exasperating his patrons by acting like he needs more, more of what they're giving him. And in fall of 22, he got kind of yelled out by Biden for this kind of thing. And Biden had a lot of time on his watch for Zelensky.

So as of this recording, Trump has paused military and intelligence aid to Ukraine, and the minerals deal still has not been signed, though Zelensky has posted some mollifying messages on

social media. So the ultimate effect of this quite extraordinary incident

remains undetermined. But Rusty and Dan, what do you predict? It's pretty clear that the Trump,

I mean, he said in his campaign for president that he was going to do a big beautiful deal on day one,

which is his usual hyperbolic way of signaling

that this was a priority for his administration.

And I guess he's following through on that goal.

So I think given the realities of political power and the nature of that conflict,

I think we're going to see some kind of deal, some kind of peace treaty, whether it's

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