I'm Alan Alda and this is clear and vivid conversations about connecting and communicating. 200,000 Americans, 200,000 Alan needlessly died because they refused a COVID vaccine.

Most of those deaths were innocent victims.

They went down that rabbit hole, you know, watching Fox News

or listening to the CPAC conference of Conservatives in July of 2021. First, they're gonna vaccinate you

and then they're gonna take away your guns and your Bibles. And as ridiculous as that

sounds to us, people in my state of Texas accepted that. It's almost unbelievable. That's Dr. Peter

Hotez. In his white coat and bow tie he became a familiar face on TV during the

COVID pandemic laying out the scientific case for the safety and efficacy of COVID vaccines.

He also became the target of anti-Vaxers, putting him at physical risk.

In his new book, The Deadly Rise of Anti Science, a scientist's warning, he spells out how

anti science has become a major societal force and a lethal one.

This is great to be talking with you about this because we're talking about something that's

so important is rise of anti science that came to the

forefront in a very vivid way during the pandemic. You describe it in graphic terms

you call it aggression. That's not too strong a term is it?

Yeah and by the way this was not a fun book to write the deadly rise of anti science

because it talks about a very dark chapter in American history.

I mean, you know, when I got my MD and PhD in New York a long, long time ago,

being a scientist or developing vaccines was seen as something

almost heroic, you know, science for the benefit of humanity

and and the extraordinary impact of vaccines and vaccinations.

I mean the hookworm vaccine, human hookworm vaccine that I started as an MD PhD student in New York

...