This is Pillow Talk brought to you by Killer and A Sweet Thing.

I'm Eileen Kelly and I'm Jacob Safarian.

On this podcast we normalize sexual experiences by allowing the people who live them to speak for themselves.

On today's episode, we're joined by transgender model and activist Ava Gray.

In addition to modeling for Gucci and GQ, she's appeared in the FX series Pose.

Ava uses her platform to raise awareness for queer and trans rights.

Ava Gray, welcome to Pillow Talk.

Thank you so much for having me.

So I guess we'll start off with, for those who aren't familiar with the term transgender, how would you define it?

It is a word that I strongly shy away from just because breaking it down the word trans you know that that means to change and then gender and it's a very much I believe that we were born as is like you you know, our spirit is our identified gender.

So I never felt there was a point where I have changed my gender.

But I do believe in, you know, women of trans experience or man of trans experience because there are certain

trans experiences that I do identify with and I do, that does resonate with me.

So if that's a term that you don't like to use,

what term do you use?

One woman of trans experience or man of trans experience.

It's super long, but it definitely gets the point.

And then as far as like a gay man,

I don't like to say that either,

because it definitely reduces a man to just a sexual orientation.

And I very much like to say queer and

understand that there's such a broad spectrum and what you like today can very

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