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This is John Batchel, asking colleagues Steve Yates of the Heritage Foundation,

when he first realized that China had a false face, that it wasn't this retiring member of the international community,

but in fact was on a venture of piracy and theft and brutality, towards its neighbors, towards the United States,

towards anyone doing business with it. When did the false face drop away? When did Steve realize that what we were dealing with was a determined and fanatical adversary

who meant to be supreme and make certain everybody else was inferior?

Steve answers in pieces. This was a dialogue that goes on for many years.

Steve Yates on when he realized that China had a false face and was predatory. More of this tonight.

Well, for me, looking back in hindsight, it's very, very clear.

But I would say I largely agree with Gordon's timeline.

I think during the Bush administration, George W. Bush administration, actions should have spoken

...